Karl: I do not wish to create inhibitions or attempt to dampen your activities over the forth coming holiday weekend but I have now started on the deck that was afore mentioned and accredited to you. The design settled upon is a structure measuring 12 by 24 foot with a 10 foot gazebo incorporated into the north east corner. This will render the decks widest point at 17 foot as 1/2 of the "bird cage" will extend to the north beyond the deck. I have tried to get the CAD system to print out the plans so that I could send them along for your viewing, but I've not been able to alter the line thickness so that it can be scanned and as it the lines are too thin to show up, oops just had a flash, where is my digital camera? [INLINE] All-Right, got it. Now I don't need to try to explain what it is I'm in the process of building. The problem is that I hate to work with CCA lumber because in the first place it is usually warped and if it isn't it soon will be so I try to get it tied down just as soon as I'm able. The second problem being that it is like lifting steel girders when you first get the stuff, but other than the warp and the weight all is going well. I just wanted to alert you Karl, so that if you feel your ears burning over your days at the beach, you will know I've possibly run into a problem. I managed to cabbage onto some very long square drive screws that are used to tie double wide modular homes together, and boy do they ever suck the corners down tight. A note worth remembering to those that might be trying to get something square that doesn't have four corners to work with, the old three-four-five triangle method works very well and can be expanded to any multiple desired like 6-8-10 or 9-12-15. The larger the ratio the smaller the error. Dale